Regional Tournament Follow Up

[Bearhugger]

Historically after the regional tournaments are over, Bear Tracks has never released any rankings.

WVMat releases new rankings that reflect the state tournament qualifiers that fall into their top 10.

For the first time in the history of wrestling, Bear Tracks will release a special set of rankings compiled in a manner that has never been done before.

The four regional tournaments will be treated like any other series of weekend tournaments.

The head-to-head matches will be recorded and then the four regional tournament results will be blended together in relation to the rankings put out before the regional tournaments. We will have a final set of rankings that include state tournament qualifiers mixed with non-state tournament qualifiers.

The purpose of this ranking exercise is to find what might be found. We could have wrestlers end up in the top 6 or 7 in the state but did not qualify for the state tournament. For example: We could have a situation where #2, #3, #5, #6 and #8 are all in the same region. The qualifiers end up being #2, #3, #5 and #6. We then forget about #8 because he didn’t qualify for the state tournament. We also forget that #8 beat #12 twice during the season. #12 won his region. Did #8 not work hard enough or did #12 benefit from a weak region???? Is #12 lucky that #8 is in a different region?

In addition, I laid out an idea on how to improve the state tournament qualification process in another post. After the regional tournaments are over, I am going to use the information I have to “implement” my proposal to see if any change occurs in the actual state tournament qualifiers vs the state tournament qualifiers under the proposal.

I do want to be clear with my proactive communication.

1 I have no idea as of this writing who will qualify for the state tournament. Neither do you.

2 All wrestlers who do qualify for the state tournament, are the true state tournament qualifiers. They showed up to their given regional tournament, made weight, passed the skin check, wrestled the opponents put in front of them and placed accordingly.

3 This simulation is being performed to see how much difference occurs in the state tournament qualification process between current process vs proposed process.

In summary:

1 The last set of rankings before regional tournament weekend will be updated with the regional tournament results to create a season ending snapshot ranking before the state tournament.

2 A simulation will be conducted using regional results, known historical match results and the proposed new method for the state tournament qualification process. This will tell us if there is any difference between current method vs proposed method.

Good luck to all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[KDunbar]

I started to look at things based on your above refrenced proposal on the other thread you started and decided to post the hypothetical results of the proposal you made on this thread. I'm being neither positive nor negative, but just making observations on what possible effects your proposal could potentially have, if the rankings you have are predictive of match outcomes. I can only comment on the AA/A rankings as these are the only ones you are doing. Certainly any change that makes things "better" are okay, bur one has to decided if the effort to make the change is truly worth it in the end. Obviously if you are the one or two wrestlers effected it would be worth it to you.

I have listed each weight class with the "new" wrestlers under your proposal who could now possibly make it to the state tournament who otherwise wouldn't, that is higher ranked 5th placw finishers, as all the higher ranked 4th place finishers would have gone in any case. I also list the predicted lowest ranked regional champion to see the likelihood the "new" wrestler would have of staying in the championship round from the beginning.

106 pounds : 10th and 15th ranked wrestlers now make it with facing at worst the 8th ranked wrestler. I see little change or true benefit here.
113 pounds : 14th and 15th ranked now in facing the 6th ranked wrestler. I see little benefit here.
120 pounds : 15th ranked wrestler in and facing the 7th ranked wrestler. Again I see little benefit here to truly making the tournament overall better.
126 pounds : 8th and 15th ranked wrestlers now in and facing the 13th ranked wrestler. * Here there is a real probable benefit[color=#000000].
132 pounds : 10th, 11th, and 20th ranked wrestlers now in and facing the 13th ranked wrestler. Here maybe a slight possible benefit.
138 pounds : 9th, 12th, and 20th ranked wrestlers now in and facing the 13th ranked wrestler. Here there is a possible benefit.
144 pounds : 10th, 17th, and 20th ranked wrestlers now in facing the 8th ranked wrestler. I don't see a significant improvement here.
150 pounds : Absolutely no effect.
157 pounds : the 11th ranked wrestler now in and facing the 13th ranked wrestler. Not sure there is any significance here at all.
165 pounds : 8th and 18th ranked wrestlers now in and facing the 11th ranked wrestler. *Another probable benefit.
175 pounds : 10th and 14th ranked wrestlers now in and facing the 5th ranked wrestler. No benefit at all.
190 pounds : (Using last weeks rankings from here on as this weeks not yet posted gives) 16th, 17th, and 19th ranked wrestlers now in and facing the 9th ranked wrestler. No benefit.
215 pounds : 12th and 14th ranked wrestlers now in and facing the 5th ranked wrestler. No benefit.
285 pounds : 11th, 16th, and 22nd ranked wrestlers now in and facing the 6th ranked wrestler. No benefit.

So 126 pounds & 165 pounds with some benefit, and 132 pounds & 138 pounds with possibly some slight benefit. Again this is from my perspective. It would seem to me a much simpler solution is to simply move one or two teams out of region 1 (the only region positively affected in 2 to 4 weight classes) and not have to change the entire system of the state tournament. It might be easier to convince people of this as a majority probably already agree with this simple solution.

[Bearhugger]

I started to look at things based on your above refrenced proposal on the other thread you started and decided to post the hypothetical results of the proposal you made on this thread. I'm being neither positive nor negative, but just making observations on what possible effects your proposal could potentially have, if the rankings you have are predictive of match outcomes. I can only comment on the AA/A rankings as these are the only ones you are doing. Certainly any change that makes things "better" are okay, bur one has to decided if the effort to make the change is truly worth it in the end. Obviously if you are the one or two wrestlers effected it would be worth it to you.

I have listed each weight class with the "new" wrestlers under your proposal who could now possibly make it to the state tournament who otherwise wouldn't, that is higher ranked 5th placw finishers, as all the higher ranked 4th place finishers would have gone in any case. I also list the predicted lowest ranked regional champion to see the likelihood the "new" wrestler would have of staying in the championship round from the beginning.

106 pounds : 10th and 15th ranked wrestlers now make it with facing at worst the 8th ranked wrestler. I see little change or true benefit here.
113 pounds : 14th and 15th ranked now in facing the 6th ranked wrestler. I see little benefit here.
120 pounds : 15th ranked wrestler in and facing the 7th ranked wrestler. Again I see little benefit here to truly making the tournament overall better.
126 pounds : 8th and 15th ranked wrestlers now in and facing the 13th ranked wrestler. * Here there is a real probable benefit[color=#000000].
132 pounds : 10th, 11th, and 20th ranked wrestlers now in and facing the 13th ranked wrestler. Here maybe a slight possible benefit.
138 pounds : 9th, 12th, and 20th ranked wrestlers now in and facing the 13th ranked wrestler. Here there is a possible benefit.
144 pounds : 10th, 17th, and 20th ranked wrestlers now in facing the 8th ranked wrestler. I don't see a significant improvement here.
150 pounds : Absolutely no effect.
157 pounds : the 11th ranked wrestler now in and facing the 13th ranked wrestler. Not sure there is any significance here at all.
165 pounds : 8th and 18th ranked wrestlers now in and facing the 11th ranked wrestler. *Another probable benefit.
175 pounds : 10th and 14th ranked wrestlers now in and facing the 5th ranked wrestler. No benefit at all.
190 pounds : (Using last weeks rankings from here on as this weeks not yet posted gives) 16th, 17th, and 19th ranked wrestlers now in and facing the 9th ranked wrestler. No benefit.
215 pounds : 12th and 14th ranked wrestlers now in and facing the 5th ranked wrestler. No benefit.
285 pounds : 11th, 16th, and 22nd ranked wrestlers now in and facing the 6th ranked wrestler. No benefit.

So 126 pounds & 165 pounds with some benefit, and 132 pounds & 138 pounds with possibly some slight benefit. Again this is from my perspective. It would seem to me a much simpler solution is to simply move one or two teams out of region 1 (the only region positively affected in 2 to 4 weight classes) and not have to change the entire system of the state tournament. It might be easier to convince people of this as a majority probably already agree with this simple solution.

This obviously peaked your curiosity. Before the analysis can be performed, we have to know who qualifies. We can begin the analysis Saturday night or Sunday morning. I do not understand what you did because we do not know who the qualifiers are.

[KDunbar]

I started to look at things based on your above refrenced proposal on the other thread you started and decided to post the hypothetical results of the proposal you made on this thread. I'm being neither positive nor negative, but just making observations on what possible effects your proposal could potentially have, if the rankings you have are predictive of match outcomes. I can only comment on the AA/A rankings as these are the only ones you are doing. Certainly any change that makes things "better" are okay, bur one has to decided if the effort to make the change is truly worth it in the end. Obviously if you are the one or two wrestlers effected it would be worth it to you.

I have listed each weight class with the "new" wrestlers under your proposal who could now possibly make it to the state tournament who otherwise wouldn't, that is higher ranked 5th placw finishers, as all the higher ranked 4th place finishers would have gone in any case. I also list the predicted lowest ranked regional champion to see the likelihood the "new" wrestler would have of staying in the championship round from the beginning.

106 pounds : 10th and 15th ranked wrestlers now make it with facing at worst the 8th ranked wrestler. I see little change or true benefit here.
113 pounds : 14th and 15th ranked now in facing the 6th ranked wrestler. I see little benefit here.
120 pounds : 15th ranked wrestler in and facing the 7th ranked wrestler. Again I see little benefit here to truly making the tournament overall better.
126 pounds : 8th and 15th ranked wrestlers now in and facing the 13th ranked wrestler. * Here there is a real probable benefit[color=#000000].
132 pounds : 10th, 11th, and 20th ranked wrestlers now in and facing the 13th ranked wrestler. Here maybe a slight possible benefit.
138 pounds : 9th, 12th, and 20th ranked wrestlers now in and facing the 13th ranked wrestler. Here there is a possible benefit.
144 pounds : 10th, 17th, and 20th ranked wrestlers now in facing the 8th ranked wrestler. I don't see a significant improvement here.
150 pounds : Absolutely no effect.
157 pounds : the 11th ranked wrestler now in and facing the 13th ranked wrestler. Not sure there is any significance here at all.
165 pounds : 8th and 18th ranked wrestlers now in and facing the 11th ranked wrestler. *Another probable benefit.
175 pounds : 10th and 14th ranked wrestlers now in and facing the 5th ranked wrestler. No benefit at all.
190 pounds : (Using last weeks rankings from here on as this weeks not yet posted gives) 16th, 17th, and 19th ranked wrestlers now in and facing the 9th ranked wrestler. No benefit.
215 pounds : 12th and 14th ranked wrestlers now in and facing the 5th ranked wrestler. No benefit.
285 pounds : 11th, 16th, and 22nd ranked wrestlers now in and facing the 6th ranked wrestler. No benefit.

So 126 pounds & 165 pounds with some benefit, and 132 pounds & 138 pounds with possibly some slight benefit. Again this is from my perspective. It would seem to me a much simpler solution is to simply move one or two teams out of region 1 (the only region positively affected in 2 to 4 weight classes) and not have to change the entire system of the state tournament. It might be easier to convince people of this as a majority probably already agree with this simple solution.

This obviously peaked your curiosity. Before the analysis can be performed, we have to know who qualifies. We can begin the analysis Saturday night or Sunday morning. I do not understand what you did because we do not know who the qualifiers are.

You surely know what I did, it's not that complicated. Using your predictions based on your rankings is what I did. Sure it might change after you base your rankings on what actually happens at regionals, which is okay. But you are postulating that based on your current rankings it would appear that things need changed and I'm just showing what those changes would produce at this time. It is only obvious that if after regionals a wrestler is ranked by you at 6th place or above and they do not make it to the state tournament they would appear to deserve to be at the state tournament. That is a no brainer, if your rankings are correct (and I'm not saying they are or are not). Since no placement is determined after 6th place, that is the only point that could be made. My "predictions" using your data shows this may indeed happen in one or two instances. That's why I said changing the regions is a quicker, simpler answer to a known problem you are pointing out. You do realize that even after regionals are over and the state is done, it is still just speculation as to how these proposed new wrestlers added under your changes would actually have performed.

[mscoach4]

I didn't want to start a new thread but is a question based on the regionals.
I noticed that 2 regions are going +4 for whatever reason.
What if a kid is wrestling up a class but the +4 makes him ineligible to wrestle up by that extra pound?
Also there have been occurrences in the past when some unforeseen circumstance the day before the regional that adds a pound after the brackets have been set, would that change things?

[Bearhugger]

I started to look at things based on your above refrenced proposal on the other thread you started and decided to post the hypothetical results of the proposal you made on this thread. I'm being neither positive nor negative, but just making observations on what possible effects your proposal could potentially have, if the rankings you have are predictive of match outcomes. I can only comment on the AA/A rankings as these are the only ones you are doing. Certainly any change that makes things "better" are okay, bur one has to decided if the effort to make the change is truly worth it in the end. Obviously if you are the one or two wrestlers effected it would be worth it to you.

I have listed each weight class with the "new" wrestlers under your proposal WHO ARE THE NEW WRESTLERS? WE DO NOT EVEN KNOW WHO WILL QUALIFY. who could now possibly make it to the state tournament who otherwise wouldn't, that is higher ranked 5th placw finishers, as all the higher ranked 4th place finishers would have gone in any case. I also list the predicted lowest ranked regional champion to see the likelihood the "new" wrestler would have of staying in the championship round from the beginning.

106 pounds : 10th and 15th ranked wrestlers now make it with facing at worst the 8th ranked wrestler. I see little change or true benefit here. I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE SAYING.
113 pounds : 14th and 15th ranked now in facing the 6th ranked wrestler. I see little benefit here. I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE SAYING.
120 pounds : 15th ranked wrestler in and facing the 7th ranked wrestler. Again I see little benefit here to truly making the tournament overall better. I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE SAYING.
126 pounds : 8th and 15th ranked wrestlers now in and facing the 13th ranked wrestler. * Here there is a real probable benefit[color=#000000]. YOU MENTIONED PROBABLY BENEFIT BUT i STILL DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU DID.
132 pounds : 10th, 11th, and 20th ranked wrestlers now in and facing the 13th ranked wrestler. Here maybe a slight possible benefit.
138 pounds : 9th, 12th, and 20th ranked wrestlers now in and facing the 13th ranked wrestler. Here there is a possible benefit.
144 pounds : 10th, 17th, and 20th ranked wrestlers now in facing the 8th ranked wrestler. I don't see a significant improvement here.
150 pounds : Absolutely no effect.
157 pounds : the 11th ranked wrestler now in and facing the 13th ranked wrestler. Not sure there is any significance here at all.
165 pounds : 8th and 18th ranked wrestlers now in and facing the 11th ranked wrestler. *Another probable benefit.
175 pounds : 10th and 14th ranked wrestlers now in and facing the 5th ranked wrestler. No benefit at all.
190 pounds : (Using last weeks rankings from here on as this weeks not yet posted gives) 16th, 17th, and 19th ranked wrestlers now in and facing the 9th ranked wrestler. No benefit.
215 pounds : 12th and 14th ranked wrestlers now in and facing the 5th ranked wrestler. No benefit.
285 pounds : 11th, 16th, and 22nd ranked wrestlers now in and facing the 6th ranked wrestler. No benefit.

So 126 pounds & 165 pounds with some benefit, and 132 pounds & 138 pounds with possibly some slight benefit. Again this is from my perspective. It would seem to me a much simpler solution is to simply move one or two teams out of region 1 (the only region positively affected in 2 to 4 weight classes) and not have to change the entire system of the state tournament. It might be easier to convince people of this as a majority probably already agree with this simple solution.

This obviously peaked your curiosity. Before the analysis can be performed, we have to know who qualifies. We can begin the analysis Saturday night or Sunday morning. I do not understand what you did because we do not know who the qualifiers are.

You surely know what I did, it's not that complicated. Using your predictions based on your rankings is what I did. Sure it might change after you base your rankings on what actually happens at regionals, which is okay. But you are postulating that based on your current rankings it would appear that things need changed and I'm just showing what those changes would produce at this time. It is only obvious that if after regionals a wrestler is ranked by you at 6th place or above and they do not make it to the state tournament they would appear to deserve to be at the state tournament. That is a no brainer, if your rankings are correct (and I'm not saying they are or are not). Since no placement is determined after 6th place, that is the only point that could be made. My "predictions" using your data shows this may indeed happen in one or two instances. That's why I said changing the regions is a quicker, simpler answer to a known problem you are pointing out. You do realize that even after regionals are over and the state is done, it is still just speculation as to how these proposed new wrestlers added under your changes would actually have performed.

I am not following you and you are not following me.

First of all, I have made NO PREDICTIONS. I have never made any predictions. The first time I ever saw the word predictions associated with my work is when the new forum area was created for Bear Tracks "Predictions". I measure rankings based on what HAS happened.

Let me give an example of what is in the making. AA/A 165 region 1. We have five of the top 8 in that region. The current #8 is Rotruck. Lets say Rotruck finishes 5th in the region. He is 1 and 1 with # 4 Dauch in region 4. Rotruck also holds a win over #9 Hart in region 3. Given that Dauch and Hart finish in the top 3 in their region, they would become part of the 12 Qualifiers. Rotruck holds head to head wins over these two qualifiers. He should be given one of the 4 open spots based on my proposal instead of the 4th place winner out of region 2.

In addition, when people say the rankings are wrong, I have always been receptive to feedback. I am going to flip the tables on you. Lets say the rankings are 95+% right. I will say that the seeding I have been looking at goes hand in hand with the rankings the majority of the time.

I do not expect a change to the process. It took years to get #1 and #2 separated, which is quite pathetic.

I do know that when I talk to any region 1 coach, they all express their dissatisfaction with the region situation they are in. I will also state that I have not talked to all of them.

Changing the regions is not a simpler approach. My proposal is not about region 1. It will handle all situations in all regions.

Also, many coaches are concerned about getting more of their guys into the state tournament. They know every point is needed.

I will conclude that until the actual state tournament qualifiers are identified, what I have proposed cannot be done. I do not know what you did because you do not have the correct inputs. I do not have the correct inputs. Nobody has the correct inputs until the regional tournaments are completed.

[KDunbar]

I used the word "prediction" because you are saying the rankings, based on prior results, are predictive of what would likely happen in the future in head to head meetings and thus you are assigning the moniker of "deserving" based on what the rankings "predict" would happen. There's nothing wrong with that, so I wouldn't necessarily be sensitive about it. I know exactly what you are trying to point out. I was merely looking at how "significant" the problem appears to be. As I said, for anyone being potentially left out that is "deserving" it is significant. My analysis seemed to show that in one or two cases this might happen. However, for example, for the 13th ranked guy to miss out lkely only meant he got to attend and go 0-2 or likely at best 1-2, based on his prior accomplishments, and thus not score 1, 2, or 3 team points. Region 1 AA/A has magnified the problem because of the recent addition of even more competitive teams to an already top heavy region. Again, I assert that even waiting after all the result are in, one still has to assume that the "prediction" as to how the #8 guy would have performed at the state tournament has to rely on the "predictions" the rankings imply. He would likely go 2-2 and not place in the top 6, so he likely could have scored 8 team points at most.

[Bearhugger]

I used the word "prediction" because you are saying the rankings, based on prior results, are predictive of what would likely happen in the future in head to head meetings and thus you are assigning the moniker of "deserving" based on what the rankings "predict" would happen. There's nothing wrong with that, so I wouldn't necessarily be sensitive about it. I know exactly what you are trying to point out. I was merely looking at how "significant" the problem appears to be. As I said, for anyone being potentially left out that is "deserving" it is significant. My analysis seemed to show that in one or two cases this might happen. However, for example, for the 13th ranked guy to miss out lkely only meant he got to attend and go 0-2 or likely at best 1-2, based on his prior accomplishments, and thus not score 1, 2, or 3 team points. Region 1 AA/A has magnified the problem because of the recent addition of even more competitive teams to an already top heavy region. Again, I assert that even waiting after all the result are in, one still has to assume that the "prediction" as to how the #8 guy would have performed at the state tournament has to rely on the "predictions" the rankings imply. He would likely go 2-2 and not place in the top 6, so he likely could have scored 8 team points at most.

Rather than reading all of this and going back and forth, I will continue with my planned analysis AFTER the regions are complete.

I was at AA/A Region 4 tonight. I overheard two different coaches talking about how many qualifiers they have. It is a big deal to the coaches, the parents and the fans. I also know of other coaches that are in Saturday regions and they are already talking about hoping some of their kids can qualify. Wanting them to qualify in hopes that they can go to the state tournament and score some needed points.

I have seen you mention "the top 6" a few times. My proposal is not about "the top six". It is about taking steps to improve the state tournament. Taking steps to get more of the better wrestlers into the tournament. Saturday, there will be wrestlers qualify because they are in a weaker region and/or their weight class is weak within their region.

Go back and look at the 2023 state tournament in AA and A.

In AA, Point Pleasant and Independence tied for second place at 177.50. One of the many variables that could have changed this outcome would be one more STQ who won one single match.

In A, Greenbrier West beat Cameron for the state championship by 1 single point. Cameron comes out of the historically tough Region 1. Again, one more STQ who wins one match.

[Bearhugger]

I used the word "prediction" because you are saying the rankings, based on prior results, are predictive of what would likely happen in the future in head to head meetings and thus you are assigning the moniker of "deserving" based on what the rankings "predict" would happen. There's nothing wrong with that, so I wouldn't necessarily be sensitive about it. I know exactly what you are trying to point out. I was merely looking at how "significant" the problem appears to be. As I said, for anyone being potentially left out that is "deserving" it is significant. My analysis seemed to show that in one or two cases this might happen. However, for example, for the 13th ranked guy to miss out lkely only meant he got to attend and go 0-2 or likely at best 1-2, based on his prior accomplishments, and thus not score 1, 2, or 3 team points. Region 1 AA/A has magnified the problem because of the recent addition of even more competitive teams to an already top heavy region. Again, I assert that even waiting after all the result are in, one still has to assume that the "prediction" as to how the #8 guy would have performed at the state tournament has to rely on the "predictions" the rankings imply. He would likely go 2-2 and not place in the top 6, so he likely could have scored 8 team points at most.

I haven't begun my analysis yet. However, I have quickly come across the following so far in a few minutes.

In region 1 AA/A, I found TWO non-qualifying fifth place winners that hold wins over an AA/A region 3 champion and an AA/A region 4 champion.

There is also an AA/A region 1 fourth place winner that holds a win over an AA/A region 3 champion.

This is more messed up than I imagined!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

More to come.

[Wd304]

Everyone knows the criteria for state qualification. No excuses in wrestling.

[mscoach4]

Everyone knows the criteria for state qualification. No excuses in wrestling.

I kind of tend to agree with this statement but at the same time I have seen how well the state track meet adjustments have worked out. The difference there though is that it is pretty cut and dried in track. Either you got the time needed or you didn't

[Panther_coach]

I have longadvocated for expanding the brackets which would solve the problem. If the WSAZ can be run with 64 man brackets and sometimes pigtails for both high school and middle school plus a number of out of state teams in two days then surely we could run a 32 man or even pigtails off 32 in three days perhaps with a follow the leader format.

[Bearhugger]

Everyone knows the criteria for state qualification. No excuses in wrestling.

Wrestlers need to be tough. Wrestlers also need to be smart. Some regions do not require the same level of toughness. The outdated state qualification process we use now is dumb.

[Wd304]

. Some regions do not require the same level of toughness.

Wow.

[aacoach107]

Proposal #1

Two separate Tournaments just as there is today. A/AA and AAA.
Tournament can start Thursday at noon for AAA year one and 7pm for A/AA. Year 2, A/AA can start at noon and AAA at 7 pm; flip every year.
32 man bracket (only 24 wrestlers)
4 Regions
Top 8 ranked wrestlers in the State per weight class are automatic qualifiers and get rewarded for the work done during the season and placed as seeds 1-8 at State Tournament
Top 8 receive 1st round byes
Top 4 in each region qualify for the State Tournament
Total of 24 wrestlers per weight class
Use Pill to place wrestlers like done today.
Place Top six in each weight class.



Proposal #2

One Tournament
Tournament can be run Thursday - Saturday just as the OVAC tournament is ran.
32 Man Bracket
4 Regions
Top 8 ranked wrestlers in the State voted on by coaches in coaches' poll are automatic qualifiers and get rewarded for work during all season long.
Top 8 are placed on seeds 1 - 8 in a 32 man bracket
Top 6 in each region Qualify for the state tournament
5th and 6th place Regional Qualifiers wrestle seeds 1 - 8 (use a Pill format)
1st through 4th place will be placed on remaining lines using a Pill format traditionally used.
Place Top 8.



Proposal #3

Two separate Tournaments just as there is today. A/AA and AAA.
16 man bracket
Top 4 wrestlers in the state get automatic bids
4 Regions
Top 3 in each region qualify
The four 3rd place finishers in the Region will wrestle top 4 seeds based off random draw
Top 2 Place Finishers will wrestle each other in round 1 based off a pill format
Top 6 place


Nothing is perfect and we all have our opinions, but Proposal 1 get more kids to the state tournament and the state will love that. Proposal #2 is my personal favorite. Proposal 3 will possibly get the "Top 4" out of the Regional Brackets and possibly open up the controversy to get another kid or two that is deserving to the state tournament.

No matter what, there will be controversy, but if us a whole doesn't strive to make our tournament better and showcase our best wrestlers in the State then we are just happy to give kids participation trophies. And true wrestlers do not want participation trophies. As a coach for 25 years, I myself have had a number of wrestlers who probably had no business being at the state tournament knowing other good or great wrestlers were at home. The proof is when there have been more than there should be in our small state, a 5th place Regional Qualifier who has made the tournament because of injury or whatever else and has made the podium or better yet been in the Finals.

[masonbailey]

I am in favor of a single state tourney. We can come up with a way to have “equal” representation from the smaller schools.

[mscoach90]

Agree, place 8 and give 1st and 2nd team award to A, AA,AAA. In all honesty if they are going to classify selected sports in four classifications it should be straight across the board.

[TheBoxer]

Agree, place 8 and give 1st and 2nd team award to A, AA,AAA. In all honesty if they are going to classify selected sports in four classifications it should be straight across the board.

I'll be honest I used to be against a single class. I have a long list of why that would be TLDR. But I am starting to coming around to it. When there were 5 wrestlers that qualified simply by stepping on the scale in AA/A and 18 in AAA (note i am counting all wrestlers if there are only 4 wrestlers and the top seed in weight classes where there were only 5 wrestlers, basically anyone who could have stepped on the scale and gone 0-2 and still qualify)

that coupled with some teams in some regions can get to New Jersey about as quickly as they can get to their regional opponents.

i would go 8 regions (based on actual location in the state) (same count of regional tournaments, no loss in revenue)
4 qualifiers from each
32 wrestler brackets at state (same amount of wrestlers and spectators at state, no loss in revenue)
place 8 (or even 10 if you want to get creative)